[SeeingEyeBorg]

I'm gonna go right ahead and say Section 31 would step all over the Tal Shiar. After watching that DS9 "Inter Arma" ep a couple of thousand times, I couldn't help but be impressed with Section 31's handiwork. Not to mention how they were willing infect Odo and simply exterminate his race (of which I didn't approve, but hey...like I said, you gotta stand up and salute that kind of dedication).

Another thing; Starfleet tends to be buddy-buddy with Section 31 whereas the Romulan military and the Tal Shiar hate each other's guts. Can you say...counterproductive?

[colonel kira]

Well in Inter Arma section 31 catch that member of section 31 ( not that i can remember his name), although he managed to get away they still captured him..im going to watch this episode again so i can get the full picture.

[Mrs.Picard]

Quote

I'm gonna go right ahead and say Section 31 would step all over the Tal Shiar. After watching that DS9 "Inter Arma" ep a couple of thousand times, I couldn't help but be impressed with Section 31's handiwork. Not to mention how they were willing infect Odo and simply exterminate his race (of which I didn't approve, but hey...like I said, you gotta stand up and salute that kind of dedication).

Another thing; Starfleet tends to be buddy-buddy with Section 31 whereas the Romulan military and the Tal Shiar hate each other's guts. Can you say...counterproductive?

My vote goes to Section 31 as well.

Efficient, fast and deadly (if they choose to). The Tal Shiar is very efficient, too, but as you said, they'd most likely perhaps even kill each other rather than the enemy if they were given the chance to do so... and there's the Tal Shiar vs. military issue indeed, that's not very helpful either.

[Glenn]

Nope: Tal'Shiar for the win, I'm afraid.

Don't they have their own fleet of Warbirds, after all? So they're at odds with the Romulan Fleet... who isn't?

Can't remember Section 31 ever owning ships. Just agents aboard ships.

Like my poor Malcolm.

[Mrs.Picard]

Captain Archer, on Jun 4 2008, 07:35 PM, said:

Nope: Tal'Shiar for the win, I'm afraid.

Don't they have their own fleet of Warbirds, after all? So they're at odds with the Romulan Fleet... who isn't?

Can't remember Section 31 ever owning ships. Just agents aboard ships.

Like my poor Malcolm.

Well, if we've really never seen Section 31 with ships it doesn't mean that they don't have any. And I think it's quite efficient to have secret agents aboard starships. Starfleet personnel is generall very trusting towards each other, which makes the work much easier for secret Section 31 agents. Secret Tal Shiar agents aboard Romulan vessels, now that'd be much more difficult, the Romulans don't trust ANYONE. @.@ *lol* But then, they seem to have an entire fleet anyway, but still, it might be useful to infiltrate the military in order to see what's going on there... *lol*

Oh I just love this whole "secret organization" thingy!

[Ael]

I agree with CA. The Tal Shiar would whoop section 31's butt if the chips were down.

[Glenn]

Mrs.Picard, on Jun 4 2008, 06:41 PM, said:

Well, if we've really never seen Section 31 with ships it doesn't mean that they don't have any. And I think it's quite efficient to have secret agents aboard starships. Starfleet personnel is generall very trusting towards each other, which makes the work much easier for secret Section 31 agents. Secret Tal Shiar agents aboard Romulan vessels, now that'd be much more difficult, the Romulans don't trust ANYONE. @.@ *lol* But then, they seem to have an entire fleet anyway, but still, it might be useful to infiltrate the military in order to see what's going on there... *lol*

Oh I just love this whole "secret organization" thingy!

It is all rather fun speculation, isn't it...?

*hint at future storyline*

Good theorising there, m'dear, but I'd still go for Tal'Shiar agents simply because we know for certain that they own about twenty Romulan Warbirds. I think a few Starfleet Captains would have something to say if a Section 31 agent came aboard and ordered everybody around... Jean-Luc wouldn't stand for it, I know that much!

Nor would Archer. Nor would Graves.

[Mrs.Picard]

Captain Archer, on Jun 4 2008, 07:43 PM, said:

I think a few Starfleet Captains would have something to say if a Section 31 agent came aboard and ordered everybody around... Jean-Luc wouldn't stand for it, I know that much!

Nor would Archer. Nor would Graves.

Yes, speculating is fun!

Indeed. Jean-Luc wouldn't like it at all. I remember how pissed off he was about Pressman's cloaking device mission (I'm sure Pressman was involved somehow with Section 31 or something)... but hey, that Romulan captain... err, commander was as pissed off when Major Rakal started ordering her around.

But I do agree that Section 31 has to be a little more... subtle. I doubt it'd work if a Section 31 agent showed up and said "I'm a member of Section 31, you'll follow my orders now or I'll kill your family."
I just think that the more subtle evil guys are more evil than the ones who are not so subtle.

[colonel kira]

Scrap what i said, i was wrong.

[Atomic Ferret]

From what we have seen, I think that Section 31 has better technology. They can transport without being detected, and probably through shields as well. Their organization seems to be fairly large as well as it seems that they can come up with the virus for the Founders and organize pretty intense schemes.

I would love to see a movie involving Section 31 on the big screen. I think it would add a little something interesting to a movie that would improve ratings among non-trek fans.

[Jimi James]

The only ships that the Tal Shiar ever had were the ones that were sent to attack the Founder homeworld. I think that much in the same way that the Obsidian Order is forbidden to have any military equipment, and the way that we've seen Section 31 hitching rides on Starfleet ships, the Tal Shiar most likely don't have any ships of their own. At least not anymore and not in any great numbers.

I think Section 31 would win, if for no other reason then no one seems to know about them yet. S31 seems to be great at keeping a low profile and not being noticed because they're not out there with a fleet of ships. I've heard lots of people say that S31 should have some fleet of ships with cloaking devices and all this cool tech, but to me, that just defeats the purpose, plus they obviously don't need it. S31 has been around since the beginning of the Starfleet and have managed to stay pretty well hidden, and in the game of spys, staying hidden is more important then any number of ships your opponent might have. This is to say nothing of the fact that S31 succeeds in hide in plain sight, just hanging out among the rest of starfleet.

The Tal Shiar seem to be well known and would probably need their own fleet of ships with cloaks to go anywhere and do anything in secret.

[Kerdor]

In an open battle, the Tal Shiar win.

In a backdoor Bondlike fashion - S31 wins.

[SeeingEyeBorg]

Jimi James, on Jun 5 2008, 02:53 AM, said:

I think Section 31 would win, if for no other reason then no one seems to know about them yet. S31 seems to be great at keeping a low profile and not being noticed because they're not out there with a fleet of ships. I've heard lots of people say that S31 should have some fleet of ships with cloaking devices and all this cool tech, but to me, that just defeats the purpose, plus they obviously don't need it. S31 has been around since the beginning of the Starfleet and have managed to stay pretty well hidden, and in the game of spys, staying hidden is more important then any number of ships your opponent might have. This is to say nothing of the fact that S31 succeeds in hide in plain sight, just hanging out among the rest of starfleet.

The Tal Shiar seem to be well known and would probably need their own fleet of ships with cloaks to go anywhere and do anything in secret.

Very, very well said.

[Wereid]

I 'd be guessin Section 31 but only because they are more secretive. I have nothing else to truly base an answer upon.

[Cheile]

i voted for the Tal Shiar simply because the Romulans seem far more ruthless than Section 31 (they're Romulans after all ) and a couple times i've wondered if the whole Tal Shiar vs. Romulan military thing is all an act. i bet there's some secret alliances between the two in certain places.